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	<title>Comments on: Willson Contreras Has His Work Cut Out for Him in 2016</title>
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	<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/</link>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9078</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 21:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9078</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me say first that it&#039;s great to have a forum for these discussions, and I hope you also enjoy the back and forth.

A lot of emphasis is placed on offensive skill sets that change the odds and generate potential; understanding the strike zone, taking pitches, long at-bats.  These are skills that improve chances for the most important outcome of an at-bat:  getting on base, both in that particular at-bat and in the long run of a game.

Blocking and throwing are important, yes, but these skills largely only matter if someone is on base.  If it is true that the most important role for a batter is not to be put out, then it would seem that any defensive skills that contribute to a batter being put out would outweigh defensive skills that impact batters who do reach base, in my opinion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me say first that it&#8217;s great to have a forum for these discussions, and I hope you also enjoy the back and forth.</p>
<p>A lot of emphasis is placed on offensive skill sets that change the odds and generate potential; understanding the strike zone, taking pitches, long at-bats.  These are skills that improve chances for the most important outcome of an at-bat:  getting on base, both in that particular at-bat and in the long run of a game.</p>
<p>Blocking and throwing are important, yes, but these skills largely only matter if someone is on base.  If it is true that the most important role for a batter is not to be put out, then it would seem that any defensive skills that contribute to a batter being put out would outweigh defensive skills that impact batters who do reach base, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Portocarrero</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9074</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Portocarrero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I love the debate around the metric, but what you can&#039;t argue with is that the front office definitely seems to be favoring this skill in how they acquire catchers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the debate around the metric, but what you can&#8217;t argue with is that the front office definitely seems to be favoring this skill in how they acquire catchers.</p>
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		<title>By: theguz</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9070</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[theguz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I get the Moneyball ref, but it&#039;s still just a pitch, still just a CHANGING of the odds, still POTENTIAL in nature--not real.  A base is real.  And every base a C is better than his peers--be it catching runners, blocking WP, avoiding Es and PB, and knocking the crap outta the ball--every one of these is much more valuable than framing in general.

Couple guys to look at for context:  LuCroy, who showed this yr the data is suspicious, and Sal Perez, who rated among the worst framers on his way to maintaining as one of the best C&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the Moneyball ref, but it&#8217;s still just a pitch, still just a CHANGING of the odds, still POTENTIAL in nature&#8211;not real.  A base is real.  And every base a C is better than his peers&#8211;be it catching runners, blocking WP, avoiding Es and PB, and knocking the crap outta the ball&#8211;every one of these is much more valuable than framing in general.</p>
<p>Couple guys to look at for context:  LuCroy, who showed this yr the data is suspicious, and Sal Perez, who rated among the worst framers on his way to maintaining as one of the best C&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: jOj</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9067</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jOj]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 20:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9067</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Framing really isn&#039;t anything new, though.  You&#039;d think that the umps became wise to it 100 years ago.  These guys are pretty good, not easily fooled.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Framing really isn&#8217;t anything new, though.  You&#8217;d think that the umps became wise to it 100 years ago.  These guys are pretty good, not easily fooled.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9061</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2016 17:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9061</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[But we already know that FRAA rates framing much more highly than blocking and throwing, so there&#039;s something there at least.

I&#039;m no expert on these stats, but I think there&#039;s a reason why framing is so important:  high stress pitches.  Take the Moneyball emphasis on 1-1 pitch outcomes.  How valuable is framing in terms of reducing 2-1 and 3-1 counts and transforming them into 1-2 and 2-2 counts?  How many fewer high stress pitches are pitchers forced to deliver because of framing success?

And there&#039;s plenty of extrapolation from that:  longer starts and less exposure of a team&#039;s weakest bullpen pitchers in the middle innings.

I don&#039;t know if FRAA takes that into account, but it seems clear that framing can substantially alter the outcome of a pitcher&#039;s day in totality, and that of the team.

The big question to me is whether framing is already growing passe; I believe the Catchella reports indicated that umpires seem to be growing wise to framing, which could diminish its importance over time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But we already know that FRAA rates framing much more highly than blocking and throwing, so there&#8217;s something there at least.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m no expert on these stats, but I think there&#8217;s a reason why framing is so important:  high stress pitches.  Take the Moneyball emphasis on 1-1 pitch outcomes.  How valuable is framing in terms of reducing 2-1 and 3-1 counts and transforming them into 1-2 and 2-2 counts?  How many fewer high stress pitches are pitchers forced to deliver because of framing success?</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s plenty of extrapolation from that:  longer starts and less exposure of a team&#8217;s weakest bullpen pitchers in the middle innings.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if FRAA takes that into account, but it seems clear that framing can substantially alter the outcome of a pitcher&#8217;s day in totality, and that of the team.</p>
<p>The big question to me is whether framing is already growing passe; I believe the Catchella reports indicated that umpires seem to be growing wise to framing, which could diminish its importance over time.</p>
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		<title>By: theguz</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9043</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[theguz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 16:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9043</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Drives me crazy that pitch framing has seemingly not only trumped all other analytics of a C, but also has made them nonexistent.

The weakness of pitch framing:  it&#039;s a pitch.  It&#039;s not a base, let alone a run, let alone 4 runs, let alone a W.

What is the percentage of pitches that are even &quot;frameable&quot;?  33%?  25%?  Next, of that minority, how many actually influence the ump?  It&#039;s not half.  Call it a quarter--for even the best or worst (or, to truly investigate the trustworthiness, check out one of the best 2 yrs ago-Lucroy--vs one of the worst this past yr--Lucroy).  We are talking 16% of all pitches--and perhaps far fewer.

We then hafta remember that, while pitch count is important, it&#039;s still just a pitch; it only becomes so much as a base when it results in a BB or called K.

We also hafta ask ourselves who made whom, e.g., could Maddux get all those corner calls cuz of his (various!!) C&#039;s--or was it Maddux?

A guy that throws out more runners is more valuable than a better pitch framer.  So is a guy that commits fewer E&#039;s, PB, or prevents more WP&#039;s.  Those each represent REAL BASES.

Finally, don&#039;t forget that Piazza, Simmons, Torre were great with the bat--again, more bases, more runs--which in turn led to their EXTREME VALUE to their teams.

As for this Cubs&#039; system--crime we were forced to let go of Castillo for Ross; crime we still have Ross; we are in great shape with Schwarber as a backup C, so lose Ross; with a Contreras/Schwarbs rotation, we can even lose Montero; if you&#039;re worried about the kids not making it, Davis was better offensively and defensively at a higher level than Contreras was, and Federowicz is far better defensively than Ross right this second.  Hoping Theo does the right thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drives me crazy that pitch framing has seemingly not only trumped all other analytics of a C, but also has made them nonexistent.</p>
<p>The weakness of pitch framing:  it&#8217;s a pitch.  It&#8217;s not a base, let alone a run, let alone 4 runs, let alone a W.</p>
<p>What is the percentage of pitches that are even &#8220;frameable&#8221;?  33%?  25%?  Next, of that minority, how many actually influence the ump?  It&#8217;s not half.  Call it a quarter&#8211;for even the best or worst (or, to truly investigate the trustworthiness, check out one of the best 2 yrs ago-Lucroy&#8211;vs one of the worst this past yr&#8211;Lucroy).  We are talking 16% of all pitches&#8211;and perhaps far fewer.</p>
<p>We then hafta remember that, while pitch count is important, it&#8217;s still just a pitch; it only becomes so much as a base when it results in a BB or called K.</p>
<p>We also hafta ask ourselves who made whom, e.g., could Maddux get all those corner calls cuz of his (various!!) C&#8217;s&#8211;or was it Maddux?</p>
<p>A guy that throws out more runners is more valuable than a better pitch framer.  So is a guy that commits fewer E&#8217;s, PB, or prevents more WP&#8217;s.  Those each represent REAL BASES.</p>
<p>Finally, don&#8217;t forget that Piazza, Simmons, Torre were great with the bat&#8211;again, more bases, more runs&#8211;which in turn led to their EXTREME VALUE to their teams.</p>
<p>As for this Cubs&#8217; system&#8211;crime we were forced to let go of Castillo for Ross; crime we still have Ross; we are in great shape with Schwarber as a backup C, so lose Ross; with a Contreras/Schwarbs rotation, we can even lose Montero; if you&#8217;re worried about the kids not making it, Davis was better offensively and defensively at a higher level than Contreras was, and Federowicz is far better defensively than Ross right this second.  Hoping Theo does the right thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Portocarrero</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9040</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carlos Portocarrero]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 15:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9040</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oops, thanks for the heads up! Fixed now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops, thanks for the heads up! Fixed now.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/2016/02/18/willson-contreras-has-his-work-cut-out-for-him-in-2016/#comment-9039</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[John]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2016 14:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wrigleyville.locals.baseballprospectus.com/?p=8262#comment-9039</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Complimentary about Contreras, not Castillo]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Complimentary about Contreras, not Castillo</p>
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